The Rhetoric of War-Based Music - The 1960s: Jay C. (11), Kaitlin M. (11), Sarah D. (26), Shema K. (50), Joshua R. (50), Shane P. (60), Danielle P. (2), James H. (2), Stephanie S. (4)

Saturday, March 22, 2008

Jay C. (11), Kaitlin M. (11), Sarah D. (26), Shema K. (50), Joshua R. (50), Shane P. (60), Danielle P. (2), James H. (2), Stephanie S. (4)

20 comments:

JShoe said...: Creedence Clearwater Revival – “Fortunate Son” (1969)

Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
Ooh, theyre red, white and blue.
And when the band plays hail to the chief,
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, lord,

It aint me, it aint me, I aint no senators son, son.
It aint me, it aint me; I aint no fortunate one, no,

Yeah!
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, dont they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes,

It aint me, it aint me, I aint no millionaires son, no.
It aint me, it aint me; I aint no fortunate one, no.

Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war, lord,
And when you ask them, how much should we give?
Ooh, they only answer more! more! more! yoh,

It aint me, it aint me, I aint no military son, son.
It aint me, it aint me; I aint no fortunate one, one.

It aint me, it aint me, I aint no fortunate one, no no no,
It aint me, it aint me, I aint no fortunate son, no no no; March 23, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi!
My name is Kaitlin. I’m from Richmond, Virginia. I’m a nursing major at Clemson University.
“Fortunate Son” by Creedence Clearwater Revival directly speaks about the Vietnam War. One of the main themes of this time was the draft and the war. I think the song is a story told from the prospective of a soldier being sent to the war through the draft. He can’t find a way out of it as some of the “fortunate” men can. The song refers to “the senator’s son” and the “folks born with a silver spoon” who are not affected by the draft. These wealthy men are able to find ways out of fighting in the war. They support the war in theory, but are not willing to risk their lives for it. The song really speaks about the unfortunate men who were forced to drop their lives to fight in war that many of them did not agree with in the first place. Although the song speaks out against the war, I think it is in support of the soldiers who were forced to fight.

Kaitlin M. (11), Clemson; March 24, 2008 at 3:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey group. My name is Danielle. I'm a student at USC Upstate. I'm in my freshman year and I’m majoring in Communications. I want to be a broadcast journalist in the future. My favorite subject is English. Fortunate Son" by Creedence Clearwater is about soldiers during the Vietnam War. These soldiers in my opinion have had a hard life. Soldiers are use to seeing a world full of war, blood, and losing friends. The song is about other people who are fortunate and they haven't seen that side of life. There is a part in the song when Clearwater says "some folks are born silver spoon in hand." I think it refers to men that haven't been touch by war because they've had a rich life. The song really speaks out against war. I think its about every soldier that had to risk there life and its just hard trying to find your way back. The men who haven't been touch by war or come out of it without any damage physically and mentally are fortunate. I agree with Kaitlin though that the song can also refer to supporting the soldiers. These are my thoughts on "Fortunate Son" thanks for taking the time out to read them.

Danielle P. (2), USC; March 25, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Anonymous said...: Hey there!
My name is Stephanie Smits and I am a freshman at USC Upstate. I am majoring in Elementary Education and can’t wait to be done with school so I can start my career. The song “Fortunate Son” is a song about the Vietnam War and talks about living the life of those who were not fortunate enough to escape from being drafted. “Some folks are made to wave to the flag,” and “Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,” are two very important lines of the song. I believe that Creedence Clearwater Revival thought there were three types of people at the time of the war: People who were born to fight in war, people who were born too wealthy to fight in war, and people who don’t have a choice but to go to war. That is were I feel that Creedence Clearwater Revival comes in if they consider themselves as “Ain’t no fortunate one.”

Stephanie S. (4) USC Upstate :); March 26, 2008 at 11:44 AM
Anonymous said...: Hey,
My name is Jay and I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm a business major at Clemson.
"Fortunate Son” by Clearwater Creedence Revival is great song depicting the thoughts and feelings of many of the American Nation during the Vietnam War. Obviously, the view that CCR is taking their song from is one of an American who was drafted because they didn’t have the wealth and power to evade the military. The line from the song supporting me is, “Some folks are born with silver spoon in hand, Lord don’t they help themselves.” Then as Clearwater Creedence Revival says, “it ain’t me, it ain’t me; I ain’t no fortunate one, no,” this describes if they had money or their parents had a position of power they could possibly avoid being drafted but because they are just ordinary citizens there number is up. Those with positions of power who knew they were not going to have to serve, supported the war because they knew those less “fortunate” were the ones out there risking their lives. These are all the reasons that whenever you watch a movie about this time period or the Vietnam War, it was almost impossible for the director to leave this song out because it so perfectly describes the era.

Jay C. (11) Clemson; March 26, 2008 at 1:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey what's going on guys. My Name is Josh and I am an Electrical Engineering Major at Clemson. The song "Fortunate Son" by Creedence Clearwater Revival is a song by a man who is spiteful towards those who didn't have to go to the Vietnam War. He is clearly saying that he doesn't have any patriotism in the first verse followed by the chorus. He says "Some folks are born to wave the flag, Ooh theyre red, white and blue”. ..... “It aint me, it aint me." The author of this song doesn’t seem to want to participate in this war and probably got selected for the draft. His bitterness toward the people who didn’t get selected for the draft is clearly shown throughout the song. I understand that war in general is hell to say the least but not wanting to support your country when you know that you have to fight just doesn’t make sense. You’re in so you might as well try your best while you’re there instead of complaining about it.

Josh R. (50), Clemson; March 26, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey-
My name is Sarah and I'm from North Idaho, probably the only Idahoan in South Carolina! I'm a biology major at Clemson and I hope to go to medical school and become a dermatologist.
"Fortunate Son" by CCR is a song that speaks of the feelings of the men during the Vietnam War who may be drafted. The speaker in the song labels himself as “no fortunate one” and talks of how he “aint no senators son.” The speaker is obviously not a man who can get out of the draft because of his social standing; he is probably a normal middle class man. The song refers to people who are born with “silver spoon in hand,” and that implies that people with privileged lifestyles never really have to deal with the war because they were raised to think that war does not directly affect them and that other people go to war to protect their freedoms. The verse “Some folks inherit star spangled eyes/Ooh, they send you down to war, lord/And when you ask them, how much should we give?/Ooh, they only answer more! more! more! yoh,” shows that the people who are raised patriotically are the ones that suffer and go to war and die for their country and never stop serving their country.
Sarah D. (26) Clemson; March 26, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Shane said...: Hello there.
My name is Shane and I am a Chemistry major at Clemson University. This song speaks of the misfortune felt by those who were born in a normal family and were drafted into the Service. I believe that the song is speaking out against the unfairness of the draft where those of privileged birth were often exempted. Although the song is speaking out against the war, it maintains a respectful tone for those who are fighting.

Shane P. (60), Clemson; March 26, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey Group!!
My name is Zach S. and I'm an ROTC student at USC Upstate born and raised in sptbg. - currently in the process of switching majors out of computer science. Anywho.. "Fortunate Son" by CCW in my opinion is a song that exemplifies the viewpoint of many soldier that fought in Vietnam. Every phrase starts out with something good, like people with money or patriotic peole. However, then in each verse, it comes around with a hypocritical metophor to show where it seemed like the people really stand. The rich don't want to give, the patriotic like the idea of patriotism but don't want to act on it. I believe that this is analogical to the soldiers in that they see people back home that are all talk and no action. They don't have the experience and viewpoints that the 'Nam vets obtained, but they're the first to stand up and judge those who took action. I don't necessariliy believe that it's against the war entirely, but against the hypocrites and others of such. I do believe that it vaguely supports the soldiers though in that it demonstrates the hardships from other people and tries to bring sympathy to them from the listening/viewing audience. Thanks for listening, until next time...

Zach S. (4) USC Upstate; March 26, 2008 at 6:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey again, this is Stephanie from Upstate. Sarah D., I read your comment about Idaho and just HAD to tell you that I just moved here this summer from Boise. I’m originally from Texas, so I wouldn’t call myself an Idahoan, but that is so funny that you’re from North Idaho because we’re probably the only ones who’ve lived there out of everyone in South Carolina… Anyway, back to the song.
I think it is obvious that we all agree that this song speaks of those who got drafted unwillingly into the Service. I don’t think there is one person who didn’t mention the fact that by being born into a wealthy family meant getting out of being drafted. Also, I think Josh made a good point by saying “He is clearly saying that he doesn't have any patriotism in the first verse followed by the chorus. He says "Some folks are born to wave the flag, Ooh theyre red, white and blue”. ..... “It aint me, it aint me." I didn’t notice until know how automatically from the beginning of the song Clearwater Creedence Revival is saying that they’re not patriotic and basically do not support the war.
Have a good weekend everybody!

Stephanie S. (4) USC Upstate; March 27, 2008 at 8:06 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey everyone! I hope your enjoying your Friday. After reading everyone's comments I found out some things that I didn't notice in the songs. It's nice to get a different perspective. I agree with Stephanie S. I think she brought up a really good point. Creedence Clearwater could be talking about different soldiers going into the war. The song can represent three people. "People who were born to fight in war, people who were born too wealthy to fight in war, and people who don’t have a choice but to go to war," stated by Stephanie S. The song is talking about some people lucky enough to escape the violence of war others aren't so fortunate. I can also agree with Jay when he states, "Those with positions of power who knew they were not going to have to serve, supported the war because they knew those less “fortunate” were the ones out there risking their lives." It can go either way when you look over the song again. Have a great weekend guys.

Danielle P. (2), Usc Upstate; March 28, 2008 at 5:54 AM
Anonymous said...: Hey again, it’s another great, warm day outside and I just won’t get to enjoy until I’m done with this so here we go… I believe Stephanie S. brought up a great point when she said there were the three types of people at this time because I think that is exactly what this song is about. Each has their own viewpoints on the war because of the way they were raised and the “fortunate” one has his because the action of the draft was brought upon him. He does not like the fact he is going and thinks it is highly unfair. At the same time, I agree with Kaitlin M on how CCR isn’t trying to act unpatriotic but is more standing up for and respecting the people who had to go out and fight for freedom in the Vietnam War. They made great sacrifices for our country and I definitely appreciate it.
Jay C. (11) Clemson; March 28, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey everyone! I hope you all had a good week. After reading everyone’s comments I noticed a few things about the song that I didn’t see before. The first time I read the song I didn’t focus on the opening of the song. After reading Josh R’s comment I thought more about how he doesn’t want to be a part of the war. He is directly saying that the patriotic act of waving the flag does not apply to him. I think it is obvious he does not want to participate in the war. I also thought Sarah D. had some interesting thoughts about the star spangled eyes verse. I think that many times people are more willing to support a war if they aren’t directly affected by it. Since there was a draft in the Vietnam War most people were close to at least one person who had to go to war. I think it would be very hard for these people to relate to the privileged people who did not have to go to war. I hope everyone has a good weekend!

Kaitlin M. (11), Clemson; March 28, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Stephanie…you have no idea how excited I get when I hear of people that are either from Idaho or even know where the state is I hope everyone had a great week of school. Any big plans for weekend? Carolina Cup?
Well back to the song. I think that everyone had really insightful comments about “Fortunate Son” and made good contributions to the conversation. I think Josh made a good observation be saying that the speaker was spiteful because of the more fortunate men that had a rare chance of being drafted. I also agree with Shane who said that the song was speaking out against war, yet it still retains its ability to respect those are fighting in the war. I love this song and every time I listen to it, I find new meaning. I think that CCR were very smart lyricists, they gave reasons for patriotic people versus the people of privileged birth and then they support their claim with verses like “It aint me, it aint me, I aint no millionaires son, no/It aint me, it aint me; I aint no fortunate one, no.” I hope you all have a good weekend and I’ll talk to you all soon.
Sarah D. (26); March 28, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi everyone…I hope you all had a great weekend! I think that Kaitlin M. made a really great point in the last post by saying that it was easier for people to expect the fact that there was a war going on if they were not directly involved in it, but there was always a pretty good chance that if you grew up during the Vietnam War, you knew at least one person who had been drafted or already fought in the war. Jay C. also made a good point by saying that the speaker obviously doesn’t want to go to war, but he has to in order to defend his country and honor those people that had already fought and their families. http://www.lyricsdomain.com/14/neil_young/ohio.html
The song that I found was “Ohio” by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. This song is about the Kent State shootings in Ohio. The band speaks of how “soldiers are gunning us down/should have been done long ago.” This song could come across as anti-war, but I think it is more of an emotional song for those who were killed. The verse “What if you knew her/and found her dead on the ground/How can you run when you know?” is speaking about how could you ignore the problems with the country at the time when they are so prevalent and obvious.
Sarah D. (26); March 30, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey again! Hope everyone’s week is off to a good start. I’m so ready for Monday to be over. I think everyone has really good points so far. I agree with Sarah’s observation in her last post. The lyrics of the song are great. Each line adds so much to the meaning of the song. I feel like they bring up new points in each verse and then are able to support it with the chorus. I also think Shane had an interesting point in his first observation. I think you can really understand the unfairness and helplessness the soldiers would have been feeling. Picture: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/x0/x2762.jpg I found a picture at this link that I feel relates to the lyrics of this song. It shows the feeling that most people had about the draft. I think the lyrics of the song express a similar feeling.; March 31, 2008 at 3:05 PM
Anonymous said...: Sorry, I forgot to post my name on the last comment. My bad! Have a good rest of the week!

Kaitlin M. (11) Clemson; March 31, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey group! After reading everyone's second comments I really enjoyed looking at the lyrics that Kaitlin M. suggest for "Ohio." I think that it really tied in with the song "Fortunate Son." I also looked at the link that Sarah D. found. I thought the picture tied in really good with what war was like. I found a song called "He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother by B. Scott and B. Russell. Here's the link http://www.brownielocks.com/heaintheavy.html. This song is also about protesting the Vietnam War. I like the message in the song that as soldiers they have to fight but why can't they look out for one another. All of the soldiers are in this together and to them everyone is a brother. One of the lines in the song is "But i'm strong, strong enough to carry him." I think they are saying its hard but lets all share the responsibility and look out for one another. This song had a really good message much like "Fortunate Son." Thanks for taking the time out to read my blog. Since its our last blog I just wanted to say thanks and it was great meeting all of you.

Danielle P. (2), USC Upstate; March 31, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey you guys! So sad that this project is almost over, but it has been fun hearing what everyone has had to say! I'm so glad we were all able to agree on things and there really wasn't any drama between our group.
But anyway, I just read through the comments again and I looked at the picture that Kaitlin M. attached and I agree that it totally puts the lyrics of this song into perspective by just one photograph! Great job finding that picture.
Forrest Gump is my all time favorite movie, so obviously this song is going to remind me of that movie. If anyone hasn't seen it, I suggest you do because it's amazing, and if you have seen it, you know that Bubba and Forrest are not "Fortunate Son's." They are two less than average guys who get drafted and serve in Vietnam. Here is a link of a website which contains the two of them, fighting for their country because money and power couldn't get them out of it.
http://homepages.stmartin.edu/fac_staff/dwindisch/war.gif
Thanks! Have a good rest of the semester everyone!

Stephanie S. (4) USC Upstate; March 31, 2008 at 6:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey everyone, last post! Hope everyone’s weekend was great. I feel like all the posts for this last week pointed out very notable positions. I like what Kaitlin M. said about how everyone during this era knew someone somehow directly related to this war. Everybody felt that they were personally in this war but nobody truly knew what it was like except for the actual soldiers themselves. Also, Sarah D., brings up a good point when she says CCR were very smart lyricists. There is meaning behind every lyric in their songs. Each sentence is placed to have the most profound impact on the listener while building the feeling of the song. Picture: http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=71299&rendTypeId=4. This picture shows one of the most severe horrors of war. The man on stretcher- do you think he was a “fortunate son?” Do you think he volunteered or was one of the men forced to be there? It’s scary to think that you could be placed in a war where you are risking or even losing your life for a cause you don’t agree with. This time must have been very turmoil and I’m glad we did our project on this to give all of us that much more understanding of our history.

Jay C. (11) Clemson; March 31, 2008 at 6:39 PM

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